To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. They are square. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? New England. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. We want that inside corner able to move. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. Like the example above. Step 3: Apply Thinset. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. It may take more than 1 beer:). Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. On the 'rolling pin', it actually wasn't the kitchen kind, but rather a very heavy metal roller DH had from some sort of fabrication table. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. #3 This is a DIY site. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? Installation. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. 4. 3. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. I would get someone else. Hang the cement boar. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Required fields are marked *. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? . The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. All it takes is the right preparation. Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. The site is called floorelf.com. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. You provide the pitch during the tile set. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Fixing that is not that easy though. Thanks. Is this overkill? Let's start! It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. Make sure to use multiple coats, if necessary. Gettin' a little delirious. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' x 60 in. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. Also - use a good thinset. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. To line niche shelves, for instance. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up.
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